Internet Gurus Credibility, Honesty and Whatever?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:10 am

Hi Allan,

I really need your input on this. I don't quite know whether the title of subject is correct or not, but that is the word I can think of.

Some might call them guru, and some might call marketer, but I'm going to use the word guru this time.

I really would like to hear from you regarding this. I've been on the Internet for quite sometimes and make some money in the process. And I have heard so many names, famous names that is, who really know what are they talking about.

But it bothers me lately. Some of this so called gurus, don't know how to use a polite word when replying to emails.

I have this experience with one of the well known gurus. I love to read his newsletter and can't wait what is he offering because the word he is using very interesting. It has been 6 months I subscribed to his newsletter without buying anything from him.

Until recently, I bought one product from him. It was good, but not what I suspected. So, I requested a refund. He replied saying that I was the first customer who requested a refund and he asked me "why". Although his sales letter did mentioned 100% No Risk Money Back Guarantee Without Questions Ask (he lied..). Okay fine, I explained to him politely but he seems upset and replied my email with some harsh word. I don't know whether to laugh or angry because the product I bought from him did mentioned we need to take good care of our customer.

This is not the first, I have faced this problem with some other gurus as well. I can't mention their names because it is not very ethical thing to do.

My question is, can this so called gurus have the right to talk to their customers like that even though the customer is not happy with their product or offer?

What make them have the right to talk harsh word when a customer is angry at them? Don't they use this phrase anymore, "CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT"?

Do they feel that they have a power of God just because they are millionaire? And because of this, they will condemned whoever said a negative thing about them.

Some even threaten me if I keep doing this, they will make me as an example of stupid customer to their future newsletter.

Is it because they have millions of lists, so they don't mind to lose one customer who always love to complain? I thought a well known guru should have the ability to listen to every customer's comment or complain.

Look at Keith Wellman, the ListFX man. Before he has this kind of success, he did has his own failure. So, he expressed his frustation (with some harsh word of course...) to a very success Internet Guru which is Mike Filsaime. Did Mike Filsaime replied to him with harsh word as well? Hell NO! Mike remains cool and guide Keith all the way to success.

I really believe all gurus should have this kind of attitude. If they are bad temper, they have no right to be in business at all. One of the key success to become a businessman is to have the patience and keep calm all the time.

The lessons that I've learned from my own experience, no matter how good the guru is, you just have to know his attitude first. Of course, at first they will be polite with you because they want us to buy something from them, but when we expressed our negative thought about him, all hell break loose.

Allan, what do you think on this matter? I really like to hear your opinion on this.

P.S. I also like to hear from anyone who have this sort of experience before. If someone feel that I did wrong somewhere after hearing my story above, kindly let me know.
izrul
 
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Re: Internet Gurus Credibility, Honesty and Whatever?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:02 am

izrul wrote:I also like to hear from anyone who have this sort of experience before. If someone feel that I did wrong somewhere after hearing my story above, kindly let me know.

Well I've certainly had experiences like this - as a customer I mean.

I once returned two products just to test an elaborate guarantee. I was given the refund but the tone was appalling. Call me a twisted fiend, but I was just doing it to test him. I don't care whether anyone believes it, but if he had handled it right, I was going to refuse his refund. (I never told him this.)

There's a side of me that just loves conflict, and it's naughty, but from what I've seen, the IM scene attracts quite a few "gurus" who seem to demonstrate high levels of "inadequacy". I'm not sure if it's a physical thing or just psychological, but anyway...

[I know we've all got our insecurities, not least me, but it's not that simple.]

The chap who returned me is not a bad chap at all. I've communicated with him since (in another guise, since he chucked me out), and seen his business grow over the years. I suppose I just wanted reassurance that he was one of the goodies really. But others really are bad...

At the end of the day, to most, that guarantee and refund offer is simply a marketing ploy - part of the numbers game. If they remembered that, they'd happily refund you anyway, but of course their inadequacy is just about big enough to get in the way.

Realise that if you met these blighters in the street you'd never touch many of them with a bargepole. I have the "would I like to be sitting next to you in a real emergency" test, but whatever you use, there are plenty of people who can pass a test of their design online.

The best thing you can do is look at who they associate with. When you get a bad experience, tell the people they rely on. You don't need to go public. If you know anyone, why not whisper the name in private. It can work wonders.

Often people gently dismiss this third party complaint, and then up pops a resolution...

Just a thought,
Charlie.

P.S. Actually the people I admire most and have been close to (at least in spirit) the longest are often the ones I argue with the most. It's just another sort of natural selection that suits me...

It's nice to be able to refuse refunds when you're offered them, too. :)
Charlie
 
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Re: Internet Gurus Credibility, Honesty and Whatever?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:42 pm

izrul wrote:My question is, can this so called gurus have the right to talk to their customers like that even though the customer is not happy with their product or offer?

Who am I decide what the rules are? Your vote is just as good as mine.

Because there's almost nothing stopping anyone from setting up business online, we see all sorts of odd people in this industry.

My policy is to try to stick with people I like and trust and avoid the people I don't like and don't trust.

Don't waste time dwelling on the rude guys.

As Charlie says, it's a good idea to warn a few friends.
AllanGardyne
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Re: Internet Gurus Credibility, Honesty and Whatever?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:45 pm

:) Thanks for the advice Allan.

Hey Charlie, your idea of refunding certain product that you bought just to test this gurus wasn't a bad idea after all. All though is not very good to do that, but then again, when dealing with somebody you don't really know on the Internet, we need to test them in any way we can, right. We need to be secure.

AllanGardyne wrote:Don't waste time dwelling on the rude guys.

Don't worry Allan, I won't. In fact I don't have to. I think that this stupid guru already throw away or delete my name on his list because I haven't received anymore newsletter from him. :wink: Usually I receive his newsletter almost every day. He always has something to offer. The funny thing is, I even don't have the opportunity to unsubscribe his newsletter myself. Talk about a loser.

AllanGardyne wrote:As Charlie says, it's a good idea to warn a few friends.

Well, I don't know whether to spread their names on the Internet. Because somebody has told me, "If you couldn't say anything good about that people, it is better not to say anything at all."

But if someone really want to know, feel free to send me a Private Message (PM). I will tell you who the person is PLUS several more gurus you should avoid. I will not simply put their names, I will explain to you the experience I used to have with them.

P.S. I would also like to hear more story from anyone who used to have a bad experience with other gurus. Maybe your experience can help a lot of people. Don't be shy to tell, we all still learning here no matter how much money you make.
izrul
 
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Re: Internet Gurus Credibility, Honesty and Whatever?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:18 pm

izrul wrote:when dealing with somebody you don't really know on the Internet, we need to test them in any way we can, right. We need to be secure.

To be honest, I knew that chap pretty well. It's just the guarantee was so ludicrously over the top, it was asking for trouble. I just wanted to see how he reacted. I'm not really proud of it, but at the end of the day he only did it as a marketing gimmick, so I was quite within my rights.

Anyone can cope when things are going smoothly. Provoking conflict still remains the best test of a person I know. Not who "wins", but how conflict is handled. Get's to the core of a person. You just have to be prepared for "reactions", and remember who started it.

Some people can be incredibly defensive. I hate being too predicatable, but these sorts need more reassurance than most.

It's a bit like humour. What do people laugh at? That says a lot, I reckon.

Just a thought,
Charlie.
Charlie
 
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Re: Internet Gurus Credibility, Honesty and Whatever?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:36 am

Charlie wrote:Provoking conflict still remains the best test of a person I know. Not who "wins", but how conflict is handled. Get's to the core of a person. You just have to be prepared for "reactions", and remember who started it.

No argument there. If these people who so called gurus able to handle unsatisfied customer, I guess they are the winner then. Because I still remain as their subscribers.

I have another experience regarding refund matter. Again, I've sent an email requesting for a refund. After waiting for 4 days, still no reply. So I decided to send a 2nd email by saying this...

"This is my second email to you. Where is my refund?"

I don't know with everybody, but for me, 4 days are just too long for me. I started to get curious with that marketer. Strangely though, the next day, he replied my email (how come this time only take one day)... :?

"No need to be rude. You will get it whenever Clickbank processes it."

The question is, am I being rude? Can he just reply this way,

"Sorry for the delay. I will check with Clickbank regarding your refund."

There, wouldn't it be nice. But then again, I can only hope for that. If he replied this sort of way, I would definitely remain as his subsriber. But he make a ridiculous mistake, so, I unsubscribe myself.

To those people out there, if you really want to sell something, please be nice to us as your customer. We are much more brilliant nowadays. We have the right to choose what is right and what is wrong.

If you just want to take other people's money, get out from this business. You are just making people who is sincerely want to help other people look bad.
izrul
 
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Re: Internet Gurus Credibility, Honesty and Whatever?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:54 am

izrul wrote:The question is, am I being rude?

I have to keep reminding myself that people in different parts of the world define rudeness if varying ways.

Something that seems abrupt and rude to you may just seem fast and businesslike to the other person - or vice versa.
AllanGardyne
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Re: Internet Gurus Credibility, Honesty and Whatever?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:41 pm

AllanGardyne wrote:Something that seems abrupt and rude to you may just seem fast and businesslike to the other person - or vice versa.

Well, that's it. This is where all the problems started. Not everybody think the same way. But for me, an ethical businessman is a person who really take good care of their customers, period!
izrul
 
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Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:59 pm

i have found most of gurus are just selling ebooks to affiliates ... i dont know how someone could tell you shortcut of success ..there are well defined rules of success and everyone have to follow , remember no exception .
topaffiliateprogram
 
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Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:30 am

topaffiliateprogram wrote:i dont know how someone could tell you shortcut of success ..there are well defined rules of success and everyone have to follow , remember no exception .

Can you explain to me what do you mean by that?

When did I mention about shortcut to success? :?:

Are you referring to me or to other people in general?
izrul
 
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Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:14 am

izrul,

Can u PM me the names of those gurus so that i'll avoid them like the plague...?
Thanx.

Well...
There are so many of these things sprouting around on the internet these days...the bogus gurus with bogus tips and bogus products... I guess the internet is just one more playing field for the snake-oil seller.... :shock:

ps- huhu...long time no see to everyone... had no internet for nearly 2 months...thought I was gonna die from connection-deprivation!

marlina @ galadriel
marlina
 
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Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:23 am

Dude, why don't you stop freebie shopping, lol. Seriously, whats up with all these refunds?

To those people out there, if you really want to sell something, please be nice to us as your customer.


So, if he was nice to you, you would have refused the refund, right? Dude, if you're so hung up on nice, get a dog. Otherwise you need to get your priorities in order if you expect to get anywhere. You also need to keep in mind that "gurus" are human too, and eventually, putting up with the kind of BS you've been spouting here day in and day out takes a toll.

Now, to sum all this up, I give you the following quote:

is it because they have millions of lists, so they don't mind to lose one customer who always love to complain?


As has often been said, "the truth shall set you free", and finally, after reading the last 13 words from your quoted statement, the truth is revealed. STOP BUYING PRODUCTS YOU HAVE NO INTENTION OF KEEPING!
asdfgh
 
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Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:08 am

izrul wrote:What make them have the right to talk harsh word when a customer is angry at them? Don't they use this phrase anymore, "CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT"?


Contrary to popular belief, the customer is not always right. I "fired" a customer the other day. He was rude and obnoxious upon signing up for my membership program. I guess he thought because he was now spending 20 bucks a month with me, that common decency didn't apply to him. So I refunded his payment pronto, deleted him from my database, and that was it.

Yes...customer service is obviously important, and yes...a merchant should be courteous when attempting to deal with a customer, but what happens when the customer starts blasting you for no reason? My response is to fire 'em quickly, refund their money, and move on. Thankfully I only had to get rid of a handful of people in 3 years. But they can drain your energy and cause you lost time, so it's not worth dealing with their garbage.

I believe that some customers truly believe that because they're flashing money around that they now have the right to be rude. Sorry...it doesn't work like that. I'm not saying that is what happend in your case. I'm simply saying that the customer is not always right.

Cheers,

Steve
Steve Wright
 
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Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:48 pm

Maybe I'm mistaken, but if the OP is buying an informational product (ebook, guide, whatever), he really is not returning the product. He wants it for free.

How do you give back knowledge?

I always assume when buying an info product that I will be losing that money if I don't like it. The risk is on me. Just because I don't agree or think that the information is useful, doesn't mean that others don't. And if I made a mistake, am I entitled to get my money back? Sure, if its a tie, or a pair of shoes. But strictly information? Cmon...
etj4582
 
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Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:22 pm

Maybe I'm mistaken, but if the OP is buying an informational product (ebook, guide, whatever), he really is not returning the product. He wants it for free.

How do you give back knowledge?

I always assume when buying an info product that I will be losing that money if I don't like it. The risk is on me. Just because I don't agree or think that the information is useful, doesn't mean that others don't. And if I made a mistake, am I entitled to get my money back? Sure, if its a tie, or a pair of shoes. But strictly information? Cmon...


hmm, are you selling information products? I know I do and I also sell a lot on eBay and you know what it says in my ad as far as returns?

It says: There are no refunds on this product because after all you are downloading printed copy that you can copy. IF you are concerned about the product read my feedback about the product before you purchase.

So lets be real here. If your so gung ho to make a sale that you offer a no questions asked Guarantee and you seriously don't ever expect some people to take advantage of that then you are really not thinking and fooling yourself. If your going to be dis-honest expect what you get.
jhardy
 
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